Desmet definitely has some clouds hovering over him. I remember reading the part about surgery under hypnosis in his book, and should have investigated it further. And, if it is really true that he did not report a patient whom he knew to be a serial murderer on the basis that he thought he'd cured him, that's simply outrageous and unfor…
Desmet definitely has some clouds hovering over him. I remember reading the part about surgery under hypnosis in his book, and should have investigated it further. And, if it is really true that he did not report a patient whom he knew to be a serial murderer on the basis that he thought he'd cured him, that's simply outrageous and unforgivable. However, I think CJ is taking some shortcuts here in his own arguments and thus presenting us with yet another Hegelian Dialectic trap.
The Mass Formation Psychosis is not new as a known phenomenon. Desmet expanded on the concept in helpful and timely ways, and particularly as it relates to psychology. However, it has manifested itself many times throughout history, including in our own time before Covid, and has been written about extensively. Consider Dutch tulips in the 16th century or contemporary North Korean society. Although not expressly named as such, Arendt had much to say about this phenomenon. To his credit, Desmet acknowledged her throughout his book. He also leaned heavily on Joost Merloo who he failed to acknowledge properly in my view.
Then, there is the matter of what many of us see with our own eyes. Have you not experienced as part of the 'new normal' this bizarre existence where 'everything is fine, life is normal, and we can talk about anything, except reality'? Have you not seen people freeze and zone out right before your eyes when you try to talk about anything that goes against the narratives and then suddenly snap back and change the subject as if you said nothing? When I've encountered this, it has certainly felt like I was witnessing something deeply psychological. Others who have had similar encounters have said the same to me. Of course, this is anecdotal and I'm no psychologist, but unless I'm mistaken, neither of us is. I simply suggest you are being bit overly dismissive of the Mass Formation Psychosis theory because of issues specific to Desmet.
The existence of a MFP and a deliberate agenda on the part of powerful people who knew and know exactly what they are doing are perfectly compatible possibilities in my view. I know when I first read Arendt's 'The Origins of Totalitarianism', I certainly felt I was following in the footsteps of our Covid-era oppressors insomuch as it seemed very clear to me that they too had studied her work very closely a long time ago.
I am glad you made your comment, Dave. Thank you. Mass Formation Psychosis theory coined by Matthias Desmet--whether it is the absolute truth or not, or whether Matthias Desmet deserves to become another hero--seems to be distracting us away from the fact that, it does exist. You can go back to a number of examples; one is Edward Bernays and his "public relations' propaganda to manipulate the American people to enter WWI. There is an excellent four-part 2002 documentary called "The Century of Self". I watched it when it came out, and as an anthropologist, psychologist and other things, that docuseries really opened my eyes to the mass formation paradigm.
Right now, bringing attention to the catastrophic events in WW II is necessary. It seems that the work of Matthias Desmet and his theory of MFP has been doing that. It boldly draws attention to you/me/us. That is important! Because if we can't look clearly, and unattached at ourselves, and the strong possibility that, we have unconsciously allowed ourselves for a very long time to be dupped by the many cushy attractions of the technologically, manipulated, politically masterminded system, then there is no hope for us. Also, a good many people need heroes, saviors and intelligent messengers to give them guidance, hope and answers. Matthias Desmet has done that, but what he is offering is disturbing, confronting and it takes responsibility; it takes wisdom, and an intuition. Matthias Desmet has exposed himself in every manner by writing his book, giving numerous interviews. He may be a hero, but he is also vulnerable to scrutiny by everyone, many who want his theory to be debunked, and just might be jealous that he is seen as one of those heroes. To me, his message is brilliant, as I have noticed much of what he has researched myself for a long time. And as you say, most people want to think everything is fine, to get on with their normal life. Most people are conditioned to get along, to not rock the boat of social reality--the world has been good to them; most people have pride in how they were groomed, pride in being successful, pride in their country and can't see beyond the reality of that pride. But right now, courage, humility, letting go and insight is desperately needed to step outside of one's reality to see the extreme dependence on the system, which has been increasing for a long time. The mass formation psychosis as it was before-2020, was well hidden, subtle, not so noticeable. But right now, it is definitely evident and if we can pass through the contentious gossip and individual voices who get stuck in the rhetoric, we can understand how it works, learn about the human mind and stand up for ourselves.
"Then, there is the matter of what many of us see with our own eyes. Have you not experienced as part of the 'new normal' this bizarre existence where 'everything is fine, life is normal, and we can talk about anything, except reality'? Have you not seen people freeze and zone out right before your eyes when you try to talk about anything that goes against the narratives and then suddenly snap back and change the subject as if you said nothing?"
Yes, every single time, with very few exceptions. Its bloody painful. Everywhere I look I see life just going on like absolutely nothing wrong or weird. It does my head in.
I like your charitable approach to Desmet, though I am not too sure i'll let him off the hook so quite so quickly. Personally I see him as just another specialist who is possibly blind to truth od the wider world around him. I'm not going to say that he has bad intentions, I just think he's wrong if he's suggesting that this "Mass Formation" has not "formed" in gounds that were not purposely cultivated to provide an environment where the "Mass Formation" is the only thing that could have "formed". I have not read Arendt yet but have read Meerloo. I found when reading The Rape of The Mind that I was almost laughing hysterically at how the behaviours he describled so perfectly matched those that I saw all around me.
Thanks John. Being charitable is not my intent. I’ve called Desmet out several times for several issues. I simply perceive, rightly or wrongly, that a lot of people are suddenly trying to dismiss his work outright, possibly based on a questionable characterisation of his position, which even if true still would not mean the work is without merit or that intentions were bad. Merloo was a genius in his insights. He certainly influenced Arendt’s work...his books were short and concise. Nothing wrong with that, but Arendt’a work offers a much more comprehensive look at the subject-matter. Definitely recommend. FYI, Arendt did not argue what 2nd Greatest et all are asserting and Desmet cites her constantly in his book. If he really actively took the position some are asserting I would think he’d of made the distinction. Instead, I think people are making a mountain out of something... not quite sure what their reasons are, save perhaps to distance themselves from Desmet’s personal issues, which are a separate matter, IMO.
These matters are so complex when dealing with the esoteric thoughts of individuals. I too don't know if Desmet has another game on the go, I suspect not. But we certainly shouldnt throw the baby out with the bath water.
This is pretty much the way I understand it except that, in my not well educated ways, there is no emphasis on it being imposed upon us through mainly the fear from the very beginning. That being re-inforced by
propaganda and severe censorship. Had the whole "epidemic" been treated
in a pragmatic, calm way, with appropriate precautions and available treatments, not only there would've been less carnage but also we would've been out of this mess by now. IMHO. So basically putting
most of the "blame" for it (MF) on populations as if it has developed
organically, naturally because of the way we, humans are ignores the
enormous pressures under which people succumbed to it.
Thank you, Marta. Actually though, evidence that things have been "imposed on us through ... fear from the beginning" is overwhelming. Laura Dodsworth's, 'A State of Fear' from 2021 effectively demonstrates this beyond all doubt. She brings plenty of receipts, not least in terms of FOIA releases and many interviews with SAGE members and other government insiders. In fact, Dodsworth's book is just the beginning and those who read it will likely feel compelled to research more and more from there, going all the way back to Edward Bernays's Propaganda in the 1920's which many have cited here... and even before that in fact. Also, on pages like this at least, I suspect the majority of us do believe the way the 'pandemic' was managed was not down to happenstance or even just incompetence, but rather it was by design. That's certainly the conclusion I reluctantly reached after 2 years of non-stop book reading. I'm still reading, and still of the same view. Anyway, thanks for reading my comment and for sharing your thoughts.
Desmet definitely has some clouds hovering over him. I remember reading the part about surgery under hypnosis in his book, and should have investigated it further. And, if it is really true that he did not report a patient whom he knew to be a serial murderer on the basis that he thought he'd cured him, that's simply outrageous and unforgivable. However, I think CJ is taking some shortcuts here in his own arguments and thus presenting us with yet another Hegelian Dialectic trap.
The Mass Formation Psychosis is not new as a known phenomenon. Desmet expanded on the concept in helpful and timely ways, and particularly as it relates to psychology. However, it has manifested itself many times throughout history, including in our own time before Covid, and has been written about extensively. Consider Dutch tulips in the 16th century or contemporary North Korean society. Although not expressly named as such, Arendt had much to say about this phenomenon. To his credit, Desmet acknowledged her throughout his book. He also leaned heavily on Joost Merloo who he failed to acknowledge properly in my view.
Then, there is the matter of what many of us see with our own eyes. Have you not experienced as part of the 'new normal' this bizarre existence where 'everything is fine, life is normal, and we can talk about anything, except reality'? Have you not seen people freeze and zone out right before your eyes when you try to talk about anything that goes against the narratives and then suddenly snap back and change the subject as if you said nothing? When I've encountered this, it has certainly felt like I was witnessing something deeply psychological. Others who have had similar encounters have said the same to me. Of course, this is anecdotal and I'm no psychologist, but unless I'm mistaken, neither of us is. I simply suggest you are being bit overly dismissive of the Mass Formation Psychosis theory because of issues specific to Desmet.
The existence of a MFP and a deliberate agenda on the part of powerful people who knew and know exactly what they are doing are perfectly compatible possibilities in my view. I know when I first read Arendt's 'The Origins of Totalitarianism', I certainly felt I was following in the footsteps of our Covid-era oppressors insomuch as it seemed very clear to me that they too had studied her work very closely a long time ago.
I am glad you made your comment, Dave. Thank you. Mass Formation Psychosis theory coined by Matthias Desmet--whether it is the absolute truth or not, or whether Matthias Desmet deserves to become another hero--seems to be distracting us away from the fact that, it does exist. You can go back to a number of examples; one is Edward Bernays and his "public relations' propaganda to manipulate the American people to enter WWI. There is an excellent four-part 2002 documentary called "The Century of Self". I watched it when it came out, and as an anthropologist, psychologist and other things, that docuseries really opened my eyes to the mass formation paradigm.
Right now, bringing attention to the catastrophic events in WW II is necessary. It seems that the work of Matthias Desmet and his theory of MFP has been doing that. It boldly draws attention to you/me/us. That is important! Because if we can't look clearly, and unattached at ourselves, and the strong possibility that, we have unconsciously allowed ourselves for a very long time to be dupped by the many cushy attractions of the technologically, manipulated, politically masterminded system, then there is no hope for us. Also, a good many people need heroes, saviors and intelligent messengers to give them guidance, hope and answers. Matthias Desmet has done that, but what he is offering is disturbing, confronting and it takes responsibility; it takes wisdom, and an intuition. Matthias Desmet has exposed himself in every manner by writing his book, giving numerous interviews. He may be a hero, but he is also vulnerable to scrutiny by everyone, many who want his theory to be debunked, and just might be jealous that he is seen as one of those heroes. To me, his message is brilliant, as I have noticed much of what he has researched myself for a long time. And as you say, most people want to think everything is fine, to get on with their normal life. Most people are conditioned to get along, to not rock the boat of social reality--the world has been good to them; most people have pride in how they were groomed, pride in being successful, pride in their country and can't see beyond the reality of that pride. But right now, courage, humility, letting go and insight is desperately needed to step outside of one's reality to see the extreme dependence on the system, which has been increasing for a long time. The mass formation psychosis as it was before-2020, was well hidden, subtle, not so noticeable. But right now, it is definitely evident and if we can pass through the contentious gossip and individual voices who get stuck in the rhetoric, we can understand how it works, learn about the human mind and stand up for ourselves.
Very helpful and insightful. Thank you for taking the time, Hillary.
Dave, let me answer your question:
"Then, there is the matter of what many of us see with our own eyes. Have you not experienced as part of the 'new normal' this bizarre existence where 'everything is fine, life is normal, and we can talk about anything, except reality'? Have you not seen people freeze and zone out right before your eyes when you try to talk about anything that goes against the narratives and then suddenly snap back and change the subject as if you said nothing?"
Yes, every single time, with very few exceptions. Its bloody painful. Everywhere I look I see life just going on like absolutely nothing wrong or weird. It does my head in.
I like your charitable approach to Desmet, though I am not too sure i'll let him off the hook so quite so quickly. Personally I see him as just another specialist who is possibly blind to truth od the wider world around him. I'm not going to say that he has bad intentions, I just think he's wrong if he's suggesting that this "Mass Formation" has not "formed" in gounds that were not purposely cultivated to provide an environment where the "Mass Formation" is the only thing that could have "formed". I have not read Arendt yet but have read Meerloo. I found when reading The Rape of The Mind that I was almost laughing hysterically at how the behaviours he describled so perfectly matched those that I saw all around me.
Thanks John. Being charitable is not my intent. I’ve called Desmet out several times for several issues. I simply perceive, rightly or wrongly, that a lot of people are suddenly trying to dismiss his work outright, possibly based on a questionable characterisation of his position, which even if true still would not mean the work is without merit or that intentions were bad. Merloo was a genius in his insights. He certainly influenced Arendt’s work...his books were short and concise. Nothing wrong with that, but Arendt’a work offers a much more comprehensive look at the subject-matter. Definitely recommend. FYI, Arendt did not argue what 2nd Greatest et all are asserting and Desmet cites her constantly in his book. If he really actively took the position some are asserting I would think he’d of made the distinction. Instead, I think people are making a mountain out of something... not quite sure what their reasons are, save perhaps to distance themselves from Desmet’s personal issues, which are a separate matter, IMO.
These matters are so complex when dealing with the esoteric thoughts of individuals. I too don't know if Desmet has another game on the go, I suspect not. But we certainly shouldnt throw the baby out with the bath water.
Well put!
This is pretty much the way I understand it except that, in my not well educated ways, there is no emphasis on it being imposed upon us through mainly the fear from the very beginning. That being re-inforced by
propaganda and severe censorship. Had the whole "epidemic" been treated
in a pragmatic, calm way, with appropriate precautions and available treatments, not only there would've been less carnage but also we would've been out of this mess by now. IMHO. So basically putting
most of the "blame" for it (MF) on populations as if it has developed
organically, naturally because of the way we, humans are ignores the
enormous pressures under which people succumbed to it.
Thank you, Marta. Actually though, evidence that things have been "imposed on us through ... fear from the beginning" is overwhelming. Laura Dodsworth's, 'A State of Fear' from 2021 effectively demonstrates this beyond all doubt. She brings plenty of receipts, not least in terms of FOIA releases and many interviews with SAGE members and other government insiders. In fact, Dodsworth's book is just the beginning and those who read it will likely feel compelled to research more and more from there, going all the way back to Edward Bernays's Propaganda in the 1920's which many have cited here... and even before that in fact. Also, on pages like this at least, I suspect the majority of us do believe the way the 'pandemic' was managed was not down to happenstance or even just incompetence, but rather it was by design. That's certainly the conclusion I reluctantly reached after 2 years of non-stop book reading. I'm still reading, and still of the same view. Anyway, thanks for reading my comment and for sharing your thoughts.