Greg, when I finally forgave someone (in my heart) after 30 years for the cruelty he perpetrated on me, I was able to rid myself of the ball and chain I had carried all those years. This was no "feel good fantasy". It felt more like I had been liberated and made free again.
I appreciate that Grace, but I think of that as a blessed letting go, not forgiveness. I think forgiving someone is relational, and when someone takes responsibility and apologizes, forgiving can happen. The perpetrator needs to do that. I see forgiving as relational. Maybe it doesn't matter what we call it, but your release does not, to my mind, bestow forgiveness to the one who was cruel. He or she have to come to terms with that themselves. Glad you are free of that ball and chain.
Grace, I regret saying "feel good fantasy," as it sounds like mockery. I am sorry. However, I do tire of people so easily saying they "forgive" people who continue to do cruel things and don't take any responsibility. It is almost like saying it is ok. It's not. We have to be responsible for our actions. And let good people feel free. We should.
I think forgiveness is for us as much as it is for the perpetrator. Most anyone can find it in their heart to forgive one who asks. Forgiving the one who never seeks forgiveness is an even bigger blessing and itтАЩs kind of a power move, in a way. Holding a grudge will eat away at you. You will spend more time тАЬrubbing that woundтАЭ than truly living. The wound grabs hold of you and to a degree, exerts control. Holding a grudge is like drinking poison and hoping the offender gets sickтАФ or so IтАЩve been told. Being the bigger person is a heady, freeing feeling. The wound no longer festers.
I appreciate your taking the time to write this. It is, as I said, a blessing "letting go," and that can be called "forgiveness," but I think to forgive someone is relational, not the solo act that you have described. Letting go is a blessing. Agreed. But I think forgiving is relational.
I hear ya! The bible tells us to forgive othersтАФ not everyone, and not to the point that we go, тАЬAhhh Fauci, no biggie! Uoire off the hook!тАЭ No. I think we are actually supposed to forgive everyone and that doesnтАЩt mean we step in and donтАЩt allow them to suffer consequences. I guess for me, it come down to, the teachings of the bible hav served me
awfully well for 40+ years and anytime I take the high road even if itтАЩs a hard choice, it always lays off great dividends.
Sometimes we are commanded not to forgive. In the scriptures there are always the opposites given from the Lord and this is so we can use our agency hopefully wisely. The Lord hasnтАЩt stuffed us into a box.
Yes, I believe this is correct. "Forgiveness," in the sense used here, means that the offended person stands ready to forgive the offender should the latter own up to the offense. It is more an act for the offended's behalf, as the offender is not and should not be relieved of the consequences of the offense - rather the offended party stands willing to forgive such as to prevent a root of bitterness and revenge to rise up in the heart of the offended.
In the case of Fauci, Walensky, et al, these creeps have doubled down on their statements and actions, and they have utterly refused to admit their faults in the least - this is what a non-contrite person looks like, and as such, though I bear no ill-will toward any of them, I do hope they will be called to account for their crimes here on earth. I know they will be called to account in the future, and this gives me great comfort. If any of them choose to repent themselves of their evil deeds, I stand prepared to forgive them, as I do respect true repentance - but I also believe they must be held over for their crimes and the retribution thereof. What upsets me is that these arrogant cretins continue to act all self-righteous and escape accountability for their crimes. For now, that is...
I think you're spot of on , Greg. To forgive requires someone to beg for pardon. To beg for pardon requires remorse by the wrong-doer. If there is no remorse, there can be no forgiveness. Yes, one can cleanse oneself of the evil by "letting it go"...but to mind, this is something different than forgiveness. Maybe we're all just arguing semantics here.
I too have forgiven whom I thought was unforgivable. I never want to harbor that kind of anger and hate in my heart again. It almost destroyed me. Vengeance is mine saith the Lord. I had to give it all to God and He set me free. What a liberating feeling that was!
ЁЯТЬ I know the feeling. Forgiveness is so you can heal, we don't forget that we were harmed. We just don't hang on to the resentment. In my situation, I was able to heal better when I did let go of it. That's what forgiveness is IMO. We don't let the pain fester in our heart. We learn how to heal and move on. It does take some accountability on the other person's part which I never did see but I let it go. That person passed away in 2016, I guess that helped me heal a bit more. The pain never fully goes away but it definitely gets easier with time. Grace, you are a wonderful person ЁЯТЬ
Oh wow! Thank you so much for your kind words. You articulated the power of forgiving the other so very well. Ideally, the offender should seek forgiveness from the person offended. Their failure to do so is their burden, not the one offended. Thanks for sharing your experience with me. I appreciate it.
Forgive? Why forgive those who take no responsibility or apologize. Without that, "forgiveness" is a feel good fantasy.
Greg, when I finally forgave someone (in my heart) after 30 years for the cruelty he perpetrated on me, I was able to rid myself of the ball and chain I had carried all those years. This was no "feel good fantasy". It felt more like I had been liberated and made free again.
I appreciate that Grace, but I think of that as a blessed letting go, not forgiveness. I think forgiving someone is relational, and when someone takes responsibility and apologizes, forgiving can happen. The perpetrator needs to do that. I see forgiving as relational. Maybe it doesn't matter what we call it, but your release does not, to my mind, bestow forgiveness to the one who was cruel. He or she have to come to terms with that themselves. Glad you are free of that ball and chain.
Grace, I regret saying "feel good fantasy," as it sounds like mockery. I am sorry. However, I do tire of people so easily saying they "forgive" people who continue to do cruel things and don't take any responsibility. It is almost like saying it is ok. It's not. We have to be responsible for our actions. And let good people feel free. We should.
I think forgiveness is for us as much as it is for the perpetrator. Most anyone can find it in their heart to forgive one who asks. Forgiving the one who never seeks forgiveness is an even bigger blessing and itтАЩs kind of a power move, in a way. Holding a grudge will eat away at you. You will spend more time тАЬrubbing that woundтАЭ than truly living. The wound grabs hold of you and to a degree, exerts control. Holding a grudge is like drinking poison and hoping the offender gets sickтАФ or so IтАЩve been told. Being the bigger person is a heady, freeing feeling. The wound no longer festers.
I appreciate your taking the time to write this. It is, as I said, a blessing "letting go," and that can be called "forgiveness," but I think to forgive someone is relational, not the solo act that you have described. Letting go is a blessing. Agreed. But I think forgiving is relational.
I hear ya! The bible tells us to forgive othersтАФ not everyone, and not to the point that we go, тАЬAhhh Fauci, no biggie! Uoire off the hook!тАЭ No. I think we are actually supposed to forgive everyone and that doesnтАЩt mean we step in and donтАЩt allow them to suffer consequences. I guess for me, it come down to, the teachings of the bible hav served me
awfully well for 40+ years and anytime I take the high road even if itтАЩs a hard choice, it always lays off great dividends.
Sometimes we are commanded not to forgive. In the scriptures there are always the opposites given from the Lord and this is so we can use our agency hopefully wisely. The Lord hasnтАЩt stuffed us into a box.
Yes, I believe this is correct. "Forgiveness," in the sense used here, means that the offended person stands ready to forgive the offender should the latter own up to the offense. It is more an act for the offended's behalf, as the offender is not and should not be relieved of the consequences of the offense - rather the offended party stands willing to forgive such as to prevent a root of bitterness and revenge to rise up in the heart of the offended.
In the case of Fauci, Walensky, et al, these creeps have doubled down on their statements and actions, and they have utterly refused to admit their faults in the least - this is what a non-contrite person looks like, and as such, though I bear no ill-will toward any of them, I do hope they will be called to account for their crimes here on earth. I know they will be called to account in the future, and this gives me great comfort. If any of them choose to repent themselves of their evil deeds, I stand prepared to forgive them, as I do respect true repentance - but I also believe they must be held over for their crimes and the retribution thereof. What upsets me is that these arrogant cretins continue to act all self-righteous and escape accountability for their crimes. For now, that is...
Perfect explanation! ЁЯТЬ
I think you're spot of on , Greg. To forgive requires someone to beg for pardon. To beg for pardon requires remorse by the wrong-doer. If there is no remorse, there can be no forgiveness. Yes, one can cleanse oneself of the evil by "letting it go"...but to mind, this is something different than forgiveness. Maybe we're all just arguing semantics here.
I too have forgiven whom I thought was unforgivable. I never want to harbor that kind of anger and hate in my heart again. It almost destroyed me. Vengeance is mine saith the Lord. I had to give it all to God and He set me free. What a liberating feeling that was!
Deborah, thank you for sharing your experience of forgiveness. I appreciate it! God bless you.
ЁЯТЬ I know the feeling. Forgiveness is so you can heal, we don't forget that we were harmed. We just don't hang on to the resentment. In my situation, I was able to heal better when I did let go of it. That's what forgiveness is IMO. We don't let the pain fester in our heart. We learn how to heal and move on. It does take some accountability on the other person's part which I never did see but I let it go. That person passed away in 2016, I guess that helped me heal a bit more. The pain never fully goes away but it definitely gets easier with time. Grace, you are a wonderful person ЁЯТЬ
Oh wow! Thank you so much for your kind words. You articulated the power of forgiving the other so very well. Ideally, the offender should seek forgiveness from the person offended. Their failure to do so is their burden, not the one offended. Thanks for sharing your experience with me. I appreciate it.